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| United States Air Force Airman Spencer Stone who bum-rushed an ISIS trained would-be mass murderer while French train staff locked themselves away in safety. |
There are so many ways to go with this, I hardly know where to begin. An armed belligerent confronts the French nation....and French authorities retreat behind locked doors and wait for the Americans to handle it.
The Americans did handle it. The Den's French Bureau Chief reported to me just hours ago that train staff (of state run SNCF) locked themselves in safety and left the passengers to fend for themselves..
The French government had already been alerted by the Spaniards that this would-be mass murderer had fought alongside ISIS in Syria but apparently were concerned that keeping a watchful eye might 'offend' him.
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| Cold War era pic of school children practicing drill in case of nuclear war. This drill has recently been modified to include the "reprehensible' and 'appalling' sounds of 'fatso' and 'four-eyes'. Parents also participate. |
Back to this US Airman Spencer Stone, he'll be getting all kinds of laurels from the French and our own government but I want to know more about his mother and how she raised him. I'll bet she taught him about Sticks & Stones....with a little wink at how close to home that little couplet hits. I've long lamented this ridiculous overreaction at rude comments and how easily people nowadays are "appalled" or find a few rude words "reprehensible" and forever seeking that next catchphrase to ostentatiously display how offended they are. The emotional energy invested to transform oneself into such a candy-ass to convincingly evoke such high-toned outrage is not without a cost. All that indignation expended over a few words weakens defenses so when actual danger is encountered that cowering crouch of retreat can't react in a way to save one's own hide or the truly vulnerable.
When Airman Stone, was taking cover in his defensive crouch, he wasn't cowering like a little pussy; he was relatively clear-headed and waiting for an opportunity to make his move. When the pistol jammed, he charged and opened up a can on that piece of shit terrorist.
They should still teach children about Sticks & Stones and adults that Weakness is Provocative.
Hiya GSL, I can't stop laughing every time I read about how these guys beat that terrorist unconscious with his own weapon. Love love love it. Also can't help but think, Oh well, how about that, Americans to the rescue. AGAIN. You're welcome, France! I hope these guys get heroes' medals. They deserve them.
ReplyDeleteThey certainly do Jill ! I just hope the French finally wake up and realize they are facing a very dangerous threat in this Islamo-Terrorism at home. Heads should roll, not by ISIS as they are boasting but metaphorically in French leadership who won't face reality. They received very specific intel on this guy and did nothing. I'd hate to think that it will take an attack with a very high bodycount to wake them up.
DeleteNot sure where you heard France was afraid of offending anyone? Not accurate. In fact France had its whole Hebdo massacre because it legally allows people to be offended. That's more the case for other countries. France just doesn't have the resources and as you might well know secret services and national agencies are stingy in sharing information even though we all supposedly have the same goals. Meanwhile each nation has their own budgets that don't cover surveillance for everyone on the suspects list as those lists aren't exactly like the good old days of the top ten wanted Interpol list. But good on those blokes for saving the day. Finally a nice turn of events in the news for once. It reminds me of the Scot who beat the crap out of another failed attempt at the airport. I think it's not related to a reaction to taking offence but some people just have that gene that gets involved and helps out. We need more people like that.
ReplyDeleteSo you can say even incorrect offensive things like the Holocaust never happened in France now? I hadn't heard of this legislation that must have been passed only a few minutes ago.
DeleteFrance doesn't have the resources because they choose to not have the resources. Not only do they spend far less on National Security in relation to GDP, they prefer a far shorter work week and much longer vacations that lessens their GDP. It does make for a better lifestyle but there is a cost. American taxpayers have underwritten much of their national security over the years and also pay a much higher share of foreign aid...even to former French colonies like Haiti.
Not going to get drawn into one of those going nowhere to and forths.
DeleteBut France is not as sensitive ( pre Hebdo massacre ) - offence being taken did not feature as heavily as other countries. For instance it banned the full burqa which was deemed a horrendous violation of a civil right. Even with protests on the streets and condemnation that it would offend - it still proceeded. Your point in your post was that the suspect wasn't monitored because they were scared of offending him. That is the premise that I am addressing.
France is a totally different country in every respect even among the E.U. and really most countries belie comparison to the US. But it is a mindset from the start. Not every country starts their fiscal budget with the premise of war.
And for the record - may i remind i only live in the UK but do not consider myself British perse but there was also a British civilian involved in helping.
DeleteMy Dear Naomi,
DeleteNot wanting to "get involved in a to and fro going nowhere" and then just think you can rattle off a half dozen points and skip out the door unmolested (rhetorically)...please you know GSL a little better than that.
You were quite right to sharpen up your point regarding the French vis-a-vis their large and growing Muslim population and I only wanted to remind that you best shake off your sea-legs when squaring up at The Den with 'Land Law'...we'll just blame it on your overpaid staff failing you yet again...but if I should ever face the prospect of walking the plank, you'll be the first person I call.
Our country's fiscal budget is premised on war, or more specifically national security, because our country had to fight a war to even begin.
Quite true there were other Americans and a Brit that also later assisted but the Lion's Share of the credit should go to Airman Stone. Charging a man opening fire and helping to tie up an already incapacitated perp don't merit equal mention.
God Bless these boys! I hope they make a lot of babies. USA! USA! Every time I think about this story I get teary and a lumpy throat with such a feeling of pride for these Americans.
ReplyDeleteThank you for checking in with that Anon. I do hope those boys 'go forth and multiply' as we need more like them!
DeleteAccording to this account in the WSJ, a "conductor" on the train had been the first to attempt to subdue the man.
ReplyDeleteDon't know the conductor's nationality, but I will be interested to read more thorough coverage of the events as it all gets sorted out over the next few days.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-families-are-grateful-french-train-attack-was-averted-1440272765
And yes, those men are true heroes, and imbued with The Right Stuff. They deserve every accolade and more.
Hi UF,
DeleteUne Femme is how many are describing the SNCF staff that locked themselves away. Your WSJ link was paywalled but The Telegraph is reporting the first to attack the gunman was a Sorbonne professor, Mark Moogalian, from Midlothian, Virginia USA.
I'm sure the SNCF staff and even President Hollande will try to revise this international disgrace. I've been getting disgusted dispatches all day from The Den's French Bureau Chief at her anger over the French authorities having done "N-O-T-H-I-N-G" since the Hebdo massacre (you really have to be pissed to type that on an iphone!).
France may need another little Corsican to buck up their courage.
Not sure that's entirely true. There certainly appeared to be a much greater police presence (in terms of numbers of gendarmes and CRS) in the Paris streets and around public buildings this June (when we spent a month there) than at the same time last year. They appeared very alert and a bit jittery. Even our little girls noticed them and were rather frightened - because of course they run around with weapons.
DeleteAll the guys on the train who took action to prevent a disaster were very brave and resourceful. Incredibly lucky that some of them were soldiers on leave and could recognise the sound of a weapon being loaded. So glad that Hollande has recognised their heroism and their role in saving the lives of the passengers and has awarded them all the legion d'honneur.
But agree with Heidi, what good does it do for you to attack unnamed others and vaunt the US at their expense. Terrorism is the scourge of this century. It's an evil that can affect us all. We need to ask why it's escalating and what can be done to combat it and protect the innocent. After this attempted train attack by a lone gunman, the EU leaders will need to dedicate themselves to working better together to find ways to protect people using public transport. It's now much safer to fly because of all the security precautions. Perhaps there need to be security checks for all those boarding very fast European trains, as there is for Eurostar. Inconvenient and expensive as it would be. But it will not offer protection for people on suburban or other trains/buses which would probably then be the next line of targets. There is no easy solution. People of good will need to work together to combat terrorism. Pammie
Thanks for checking in Pammie,
DeleteYou are agreeing with Heidi who was countering arguments I never made and thinks I I buried the evidence??? I am giggling as I say this I dhould make clear. I think she was missing my intended point that overreacting to what should be seen as little everyday stuff makes us less able to confront big issues. I really wasn't trying to go geopolitical until I had to respond to her comments which were based on these paragraphs I have supposedly deleted in an attempt to hide my stupidity and her brilliance (still giggling).
I'll try to get The Den's French Bureau Chief to give her 'sexy heels on Paris streets perspective' although she doesn't live in Paris.
If the French authorities actually were notified months ago by Spanish authorities that the gunman fought with ISIS in Syria (as was reported yesterday) then why would they allow complete freedom of movement and to be able to happen upon automatic weapons. I think any country that does that is at least incompetent. Letting potential tourists know of French incompetence hopefully motivates them to get their act together so they don't lose a vital part of their economy. That's the benefit of calling them out. I don't want my nieces traveling there until they get their act together.
The reporting here in Australia is that the conductor quickly pushed 6 passengers into a cabin and locked the door, and after the (very brave and heroic) US service guys initially rushed the would be assassin that they were assisted by a 62 year old British IT guy and another young male passenger in beating him senseless and tying him up.
ReplyDeleteHad the US passengers been 'normal' people rather than service men they many not have reacted in the same way. I think you're really being quite harsh on people that were not anticipating any sort of attack on a normal train ride. Not everyone sits in a state of constant readiness for attack, and if you haven't been trained to react immediately (Spencer did say he didn't actually think - he just went for him based on what he had been trained to do in a war zone) then the power of surprise is pretty overwhelming. It's a great news story with a fantastic outcome, and the American men were undoubtably heroic and brave. But your writing up of it in this manner is really a bit much G - The rest of the world does not cower waiting for the US to come in and fight for them. Other countries have completely different cultural viewpoints/ politics/ and values to the US. This does not make them wrong. I'm disappointed you've taken a great 'event' and good news story for the US and used it to give a back handed swipe at the rest of the world in the process.
and now you've deleted much of what you wrote so my comment doesn't make sense at all? Could you please explain the heavy editing you've now undertaken of the original post?
DeleteWhat heavy editing,!?!?! I changed very little and nothing in tone or substance. I think you projected a harsher tone than was ever there. Shame on you Heidi !
DeleteYou girls always get a little too lathered up over GSL!
DeleteYou are being disingenuous. Entire paragraphs have been deleted. I appreciate you have perhaps rethought your rather inflammatory blog post's wording/ intention but to now pretend you barely edited it is a little hard to swallow, especially as you are attempting to make me look foolish in my response to it.
DeleteHeidi,
DeleteYou may need to lay off the sauce. I only changed a word or 2 and certainly didn't delete any paragraphs. Ask Naomi or Jill who commented many hours prior to you if they can even detect the minor edits I did make or if what is up now is in any way different in tone or substance.
I will not impugn your integrity as you have mine as I am quite accustomed to women reacting not to what i've actually said or done but rather the strong passions GSL incites.
Estella may recall her 'Fatal Attraction' incident of threatening me with a butcher knife over too little attention paid on a weekend visit....we still laugh about that 20 years later.
Yes it has been edited further.
DeleteSecond butchers knife was probably not over too little attention.
Glad you are accustomed to women reacting to the passions you incite!
See how you can change things by paraphrasing things?
I see one edit was changing 'faced' to 'encountered' with anything else similar in nature. There were NO deleted phrases, let alone sentences or paragraphs. Naomi, have your overpaid staff exhume the original and call me out with actual evidence....I do know how your debate skills lessen on terra firma.
Delete.
As I've said before, I love how you girls circle the wagons. Heidi is and always will be a Den Fav and GSL will never use the passions he incites to mock ..but he mayl chide from time to time.
Heidi,
ReplyDeleteA back handed swipe at the rest of the world? Now that is a bit much. I've always praised the Aussies and The Brits in WWII displayed great perseverence and resource but I do suspect the Stiff Upper Lip has been replaced by a Quivering Lip with everyone always so eager to take offense over words they don't like. My point the last 2 posts was that too much energy is wasted by Whine Merchants eager to take offense. I also think many of those Whine Merchants carry US Passports. The French didnt exactly cover themselves in Glory during WWII as they quickly surrendered and many were quite helpful in shipping the Jews to the Death Camps. It should have been obvious where my derision was aimed. The fact of the matter is that the US has underwritten Western Europe's National Security to a significant degree since WWII. US taxpayers picked up the check.
With Putin causing mischief in the Ukraine and potentially the Baltics, who will push back? China is becoming increasingly belligerent making Japan and others quite nervous. Who is going to keep them in check. Germany has demonstrated they won't lead and neither will France. I don't think the UK can or wants to either. Australia has the spirit but not the might. So who does that leave? Italy? Greece? Spain? Sweden? Tell me if I'm getting warm. Switzerland? Croatia? Who will lead? Let me know when you come up with an answer or should we just ignore Putin and China because having other cultural viewpoints/politics/ values from the US doesn't make them wrong?
Well I'll muddle into this pissing match. I must agree with Heidi in her first statement...and yes I read the original "unedited" post last night but chose at that time not to comment. And please do not make the generic comment of "women overreact". Too sexist, which I know you are not. Anyway, fight or flight. That is how we were all made. Natural reaction is almost always to take flight. I can not and will not judge other's reaction to a terrorist attack when they are living it and I am not. This is why we have police and military. They are trained, the young men proved this. I also will not live in fear and hatred. Not sure what you want the French to do...maybe take a page out of our notebook (World War II and Japanese-Americans) and put everyone that is of middle eastern dissent in internment camps.
ReplyDeleteCome on T !!!
DeleteNot internment camps but how about putting a tail on a guy you were told fought with ISIS in Syria. There is likely a law you could have detained him on and if not, keep tabs on him (not uppercase Tabs of course). That's easy peasy National Security 101 stuff.
Unfortunately, some one dropped the ball and didn't do their job. The same can be said for 911 and many other successful terrorist attacks. Should the guy have been tailed? Obviously. Your post and comments are not very nice to the French...not only to the government but to the people. That is what I take issue with. No one asks for this to happen. And again, I refuse to live in fear and hate...then the terrorist have won.
DeleteT,
DeleteWe have different perspectives here. Because the gunman's pistol jammed, and the heroic actions of those previously mentioned, we dont have a high bodycount. The gunman likely heard those American accents and they would get the first few rounds. In which case we'ee not discussing how nice I am.
9/11 was far more needle in haystack; Hebdo less so but precautions had been taken.
If the story holds up that Spain gave hard intel re ISIS/gunman connection, then several people should be fired. This would be only 2 dots to connect with the Hebdo massacre and others fresh on everyone's mind.
My friend in France is disgusted at how the French leaders are governing. In matters of public safety, I'm not very concerned about being nice.
My anti-French sentiments arise from the President Chirac era (prior to him being convicted of numerous counts of corruption and embezzlement) who to curry political capital was gratuitously anti-American while several French business interests I suspect he aided were doing the illegal oil-for-food deals with Saddam Hussein along with the Russians and others giving Saddam the false impression the West would ever invade. There were legitimate reasonsnot to go in, but Chirac was corrupt then just as he always was.
I do not consider 911 a needle in a haystack. Do I live in the only state that if they find a gun in your carry on bag they allow you to run out and put it in your car and then get on the plane? Oops. Of course, when we do have a terrorist attack in my state, the first response is EVERYONE should own a gun. Chicago may be different but we are breeding a lot of hate down here. It is mostly from those that have never felt any prejudice. You won the sperm derby...white and male. We can talk later. Maybe face to face. Hubs and I are thinking of coming to Chicago in September, I'll text ya later. Much love.
ReplyDeleteT, let me know soon as you firm up Chicago itinearary so I can block those days out. We'll have another fun night out! xo
DeleteI have read quite bitter arguments on at least 3 blogs I follow , in the last few days, about the french train incident and about the recent shootings in the USA, and a doc that said 8000 deaths each month from guns. It just brings home that there is as ever a massive disconnect between how Americans view themselves in the world and how the rest of the western world views those in the USA.
ReplyDeleteJaney
You may be right Janey but there is also a massive disconnect between the 8000 gun deaths/month and the numbers I was able to obtain in a matter of seconds via a quick google search. In 2 recent years the total gun deaths for homicide were just over 8,000 for the year and over 11,000 for another year. The suicide gun deaths were a bit higher for both those years but tallying them together they don't approach the 8,000/month figure you cite. Try actually verifying these facts next time you hear things thst sound startling before passing along. If you find hard data from a reliable source that supports your assertion then come back and post the link and I will concede defeat.
Delete